This was originally broadcast last year. I just saw it on google. All
the aforementioned opinions still apply.

missmoon

Glad that wasn't my box!

david (team new hampshire)

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "June" wrote:
>
> This was originally broadcast last year. I just saw it on google.
All
> the aforementioned opinions still apply.
>
> missmoon
>

Miss Moon,

The person you are attacking is a kind, talented boxer who cares
very deeply about the pasttime and its people. Please do consider
that what you have posted can be perceived as being damaging in
several ways.

LB


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "June" wrote:
>
> I notice Thomas never mentioned his trail name. As time goes by,
this
> wonderful, unique, and special hobby that started out as a
beautiful
> little secret, growing slowly as people stumbled onto it by
accident
> is going to be spoiled by the never ending and usually destructive
> American need to make everything bigger and better.
>
> As more and more people take up this hobby, seemingly in droves,
there
> will be more missing boxes, more poorly re-hidden boxes, more
> vandalized boxes, as *most* of these droves of people get bored
and
> move onto another weekend activity.
>
> To steal a phrase I read recently on another list, we do not need
> to "drum up" business for letterboxing, nor should we. What we
should
> be doing is letting it grow naturally and treasuring it.
>
> Did being on the radio pump your ego Thomas?
>
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1832303
>
> MissMoon
>

That was such a nice way of saying: "Put a sock in it"! Na-nee, na-
nee, tag you're it Miss Moon. :::::::::::::running away.

Gerania

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Lightnin Bug"
wrote:
>
> Miss Moon,
>
> The person you are attacking is a kind, talented boxer who cares
> very deeply about the pasttime and its people. Please do consider
> that what you have posted can be perceived as being damaging in
> several ways.
>
> LB
>
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "June" wrote:
> >
> > I notice Thomas never mentioned his trail name. As time goes by,
> this
> > wonderful, unique, and special hobby that started out as a
> beautiful
> > little secret, growing slowly as people stumbled onto it by
> accident
> > is going to be spoiled by the never ending and usually
destructive
> > American need to make everything bigger and better.
> >
> > As more and more people take up this hobby, seemingly in droves,
> there
> > will be more missing boxes, more poorly re-hidden boxes, more
> > vandalized boxes, as *most* of these droves of people get bored
> and
> > move onto another weekend activity.
> >
> > To steal a phrase I read recently on another list, we do not need
> > to "drum up" business for letterboxing, nor should we. What we
> should
> > be doing is letting it grow naturally and treasuring it.
> >
> > Did being on the radio pump your ego Thomas?
> >
> > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1832303
> >
> > MissMoon
> >
>

Yikes! You caught me!
It was the most excellent NPR broadcast that rekindled my interest in
letterboxing, and I've been loving everything about it ever since. I had
first heard about it years earlier from our next door neighbor in England,
but would never have been inspired to start here in the States without that
interview with Mr. Thomas J.
I owe him everything..if I had a Capital One card, it'd be his!

Sincerely,
Ruby Tuesday of the Huns, Visigoths & CelticLions Crew

Publicity is such a problem in Letterboxing. In some areas, we could
use more participants so there's something to find and people to
hide them. Yet we are terribly afraid of vandals, and worse,
humorless authorities.

Reporters flatter you into talking to them. You convince yourself
that they are going to do this with someone, it might as well be
someone who will get the story straight, like yourself. Then they
cut out a bunch of the important stuff. I tried to convince them to
cut out the W House part of it. That was a big mistake.

When the piece aired I was so embarrassed and so scared. The website
was so busy I couldn't get on. It scared the pants off me. I thought
the EfBeeEye would be knocking on my door or something and the hobby
would be rolled up. I was terribly embarrassed by all the noise in
the background, and by the lack of showing the nature, pastoral feel
of boxing.

As it was, I created the box, called Radio Days, on the program just
for the show, in case it was vandalized. It wasn't. It actually did
not even get much activity. I finally pulled it because of the too
close, nearby construction. I'll replace it someday when they finish
the building.

Yeah, it inflated my ego. Deflated it too. It is nice to hear from
people, good boxers, who got started after it. This egomaniac admits
to doing other interviews. And hearing from others that those
interviews got them started.

I got started in boxing after a front page article in the Weekend
section of the Washington Post. I saw a full color photo of a woman
running through the woods with a piece of paper in her hand with
some title about clues or something. I was instantly hooked. I ran
out the door that night and found one that was just a bike distance
away. That article had more eyeballs on it than any other article I
know of other than the Smithsonian. No vandalism that I know of.

I wouldn't go asking someone to write articles. If you do some
publicity pick your audience carefully. I wouldn't teach to an
existing classroom for instance. No captive audiences. You want
people to come listen because they heard about it and are
interested. I have heard of Nature centers doing classes. Cool. The
Postal Museum actually did a class.

Where I live there were so few boxers for a while, that I stopped
planting for lack of interest. There are some great new folk now.
Where do you draw the line between no publicity and some?

Meanwhile I am personally pretty paranoid. I'd appreciate your not
bantering my real name about on this public forum just as you would
not like me to talk about your boxes on the radio. I may ask the
webmasters to delete those notes, not because of the other content.
Anybody could figure it out, but no need to make it easy.

Thanks to others for their support. Everyone is entitled to their
opinions. I like the discussion because it keeps people cautious.
And no flame wars please! Or I'll bring out the Calvin and Hobbes
story again.

In the end I am somewhat embarassed by the whole thing. Phineas
loves it of course. Nick thinks it's idiocy.

Scarab of the Doubtful Publicity



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "June" wrote:
>
> I notice Thomas never mentioned his trail name. As time goes by,
this
> wonderful, unique, and special hobby that started out as a
beautiful
> little secret, growing slowly as people stumbled onto it by
accident
> is going to be spoiled by the never ending and usually destructive
> American need to make everything bigger and better.
>
> As more and more people take up this hobby, seemingly in droves,
there
> will be more missing boxes, more poorly re-hidden boxes, more
> vandalized boxes, as *most* of these droves of people get bored
and
> move onto another weekend activity.
>
> To steal a phrase I read recently on another list, we do not need
> to "drum up" business for letterboxing, nor should we. What we
should
> be doing is letting it grow naturally and treasuring it.
>
> Did being on the radio pump your ego Thomas?
>
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1832303
>
> MissMoon
>

thedoubtfulguests@yahoo.com writes:


> no flame wars please!
>

Yes, please! This is one of those issues people are going to disagree
about. There are valid issues on both sides, but can we please keep it from
getting personal!

DebBee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "June"
> To steal a phrase I read recently on another list, we do not need
> to "drum up" business for letterboxing, nor should we. What we should
> be doing is letting it grow naturally and treasuring it.

What MissMoon might not realize is that journalists decide to do a story
*first* and then work to find faces to put on their story *second*. I would
agree that we shouldn't be calling up our local newspaper and radio stations
asking them to feature letterboxing in a story, but carefully working with a
journalist to put the best spin on a story that they are going to do anyway
is entirely different.

Personally, I'm very thankful to the brave souls that helped with the Time
Magazine article a year and a half ago, where I first heard about
letterboxing. I'm sure they didn't do it for ego.

Choi

In a message dated 12/4/05 9:24:22 AM, nfmoon@yahoo.com writes:

<< special hobby that started out as a beautiful

little secret, growing slowly as people stumbled onto it by accident

is going to be spoiled >>

I am not sure that it ever was a little secret when several national magazine
carried articles on letterboxing years ago.
I also think that people who take letterboxing on as a hobby in the future,
will be just as respectful as people who are doing it now... it is the people
who DON'T take it up, or that accidently discover boxes, that will be more
prone to displacing them. I don't think anyone with a true interest in
letterboxing, whether they read about it, saw it on TV, or heard about it on the radio or
through friends would intentionally destroy boxes.

We have been asked on several occasions to participate in interviews
with outside news agencies such as Time and CNN. We have chosen to
decline as we have a basic, and well placed distrust of the press. I
think that the efforts to gain more publicity for letterboxing is
not something that is really needed as the growth of our hobby from
word of mouth can be a better introduction. While I did not hear the
NPR program, (I don't lean in their direction politically and don't
listen to the station), the program would have a very difficult time
in representing some of the important nuances that a letterboxer
would or should know.
Yes there can be some damage done to letterboxing if growth is too
fast. While Choi thinks that the Time article was great, we recall
the loss of over 10 letterboxes in the first week after the article
hit the news stands. I don't want my meaning misconstrued as I'm not
indicating that Choi was the problem, nor do I believe that current
letterboxers were the problem. Any article or program will attract
the letterboxer that tries it a time or two, and could care less
about rehiding well or being disceet. They are not in it for the
long haul, but will go out nab a box or two and go on to something
else. Conversely when someone is brought into our hobby by a friend
they have many of the nuances explained and will probably stick with
it. So while the Time article has attracted some great letterboxers,
it attracted some not so great ones too,and those are the ones that
can cause damage. This topic has been hashed over a few times but I
think that while growth is necessary, a slower controlled growth
would be preferable. If you want to increase letterboxing in your
area, plant more letterboxes. When we started in 2000 there was but
14 in California, and we kept planting. It took well over one year
for some of our boxes to get visited, but eventually others joined
in.I don't have a clue but I would probably guess there is 1500+ in
California now(no we didn't plant that many). Being interviewed for
an articles isn't necessary, but instead bring a friend into
letterboxing.

Don

I read the original article in Smithsonian magazine and thought, "How cool! It's a shame
we
don't have something like that in this country." A few years later I heard the NPR piece and
it
lighted the flame. I am grateful to Scarab for doing it and being wise enough to try and
control - as best one can with the media - the information.

I don't have any proof, but I'll wager dollars to donuts that for every Vandal or Box Bungler
resulting from the NPR piece you got 20 good 'Boxers whose 'boxes we all continue to
enjoy.

BTW I was fortunate enough to find the Radio Days box before it was pulled. I found it on
a
very hot, humid summer night in DC. And to highlight the hazzards of urban night
'boxing, I
blindly reached into the aforementioned hedge to retrieve the box and came up with a
plastic
bag full the foulest smelling dirty diapers in the known world.

I love the excitement in Linda Wertheimer's voice when she finds the 'box. I think we all
know what that feels like. It's great to hear it from a somewhat jaded Noxer.

Natt-

I have to make one point about all the negativity MissMoon decided to
throw in here.

This interview was on NPR... National Public Radio. I don't know what
the listener stats are on NPR, but regardless of the numbers, the
majority of people listening to NPR are not going to be devious
miscreants who wish to actively seek out and destroy other peoples' fun.

Okay... um... realistically, I have to draw a fine line there, as I'm
sure there are a number of people for whom that is the driving force
in their lives, but they're not going to give a hoot or waste a second
of their money thinking about letterboxing.

The medium makes the difference. NPR, Smithsonian, Time, Parents...
indeed, most paid subscription newspapers all get a different audience
than most other mediums.

If you want scum, "advertise" 'boxing on the radio stations you
frantically skip by and in the free papers you see on the street
corners. If you want class, "advertise" 'boxing on NPR and in
periodicals that attract a different type of personality.

I seriously doubt that anyone who's going to garner any amount of
pleasure from going out to vandalize a letterbox, geocache or whatever
is hidden out there is going to tune in to any of these media outlets,
much less read anything at all.

Otherwise, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. You run the
risk of getting involved in a serious accident every time you back out
of the driveway. So are you not going to drive?

StarSaels

The type of media makes *no* difference in my opinion.

One of the biggest vandals (when he's not sitting in jail for his fun) is a
42 year old "boy" from the Chicago area who listens to NPR frequently. And
so do his buddies. Probably the only reason he hasn't gotten a thrill out
of taking out a few letterboxes is because he must have missed that
particular blurb when it aired. He's also very active in Ohio when he's not
sitting in Metro in Chicago.

The two things that distressed me about the blurb, and this may well not be
the letterboxer's fault, is that discretion when finding boxes wasn't
stressed nearly enough, and the fact that common sense has to be used when
finding planting places to plant wasn't stressed nearly enough. I realize
that such pieces can be highly edited, and there lies the
damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't problem.

I just went to pick up two of my boxes to retire them for the winter and
replant again next spring. They were both in very easy almost drive-by
places, but the "challenge" to them was the fact that they were in very
public places and it might take either returning a few times or creating a
nice diversion to be able to both nab them and return them safely. Totally
hidden from view and impossible to find "accidentally". Thanks to either
sloppy finders or out-and-out vandals, they were both gone when I got there
to retrieve them this weekend. The fact that both disappeared during the
same week also tells me that it wasn't "accidental."

Many boxers will say that they want boxes in easier-to-reach places so that
boxers who are handicapped or boxers with young children can join in, but I
sure haven't had much success in trying to do that. Another one of my
really great urban hiding places was stolen by a geocacher after a
letterboxer/geocacher found the box.

Yes, I wish the growth of the sport/hobby/game/pasttime/etc was a bit slower
in my area. Quite a bit slower.

~~ Mosey ~~





-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of StarSaels
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 11:16 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Inflated Egos on the Radio vs Letterboxing -
Letterboxing Loses


I have to make one point about all the negativity MissMoon decided to
throw in here.

This interview was on NPR... National Public Radio. I don't know what
the listener stats are on NPR, but regardless of the numbers, the
majority of people listening to NPR are not going to be devious
miscreants who wish to actively seek out and destroy other peoples' fun.

Okay... um... realistically, I have to draw a fine line there, as I'm
sure there are a number of people for whom that is the driving force
in their lives, but they're not going to give a hoot or waste a second
of their money thinking about letterboxing.

The medium makes the difference. NPR, Smithsonian, Time, Parents...
indeed, most paid subscription newspapers all get a different audience
than most other mediums.

If you want scum, "advertise" 'boxing on the radio stations you
frantically skip by and in the free papers you see on the street
corners. If you want class, "advertise" 'boxing on NPR and in
periodicals that attract a different type of personality.

I seriously doubt that anyone who's going to garner any amount of
pleasure from going out to vandalize a letterbox, geocache or whatever
is hidden out there is going to tune in to any of these media outlets,
much less read anything at all.

Otherwise, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. You run the
risk of getting involved in a serious accident every time you back out
of the driveway. So are you not going to drive?

StarSaels







Yahoo! Groups Links

Point well stated. I DID say "the majority." There's a bad clam in every bushel.

The debate on the growth of letterboxing has had many rounds, and this particular issue
has been the focus of several of those. To use an analogy, if you want to stunt the growth
of a potted houseplant, you can restrict its watering and feeding and lengthen the time in
spends in a pot of a certain size. To stunt the growth of letterboxing in your area, you
could:
- retire your letterboxes (under the assumption that if there's nothing to find then nobody
will bother)
- pull the clues from all internet sites and make them word-of-mouth
- leave the boxes listed but have potential finders contact you via email to receive the
clues (at which point you will have the opportunity to remind them of Finding Etiquette)
- or change the clues to make them harder to solve

StarSaels


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Mosey" wrote:
>
> The type of media makes *no* difference in my opinion.
>
> One of the biggest vandals (when he's not sitting in jail for his fun) is a
> 42 year old "boy" from the Chicago area who listens to NPR frequently. And
> so do his buddies.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "June" wrote:
>
> I notice Thomas never mentioned his trail name. As time goes by,
this
> wonderful, unique, and special hobby that started out as a
beautiful
> little secret, growing slowly as people stumbled onto it by
accident
> is going to be spoiled by the never ending and usually destructive
> American need to make everything bigger and better.
>
> As more and more people take up this hobby, seemingly in droves,
there
> will be more missing boxes, more poorly re-hidden boxes, more
> vandalized boxes, as *most* of these droves of people get bored
and
> move onto another weekend activity.
>
> To steal a phrase I read recently on another list, we do not need
> to "drum up" business for letterboxing, nor should we. What we
should
> be doing is letting it grow naturally and treasuring it.
>
> Did being on the radio pump your ego Thomas?
>
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId

I have always felt that anyone who becomes interested in
letterboxing is going to be the same people who are interested in
camping, trailhiking, and being outdoors. When I discuss my hobby
with someone, I start out talking about trail hiking. When their
eyes glaze over and the state that they hate being out doors with
all those icky bugs and snakes, I know they are not potential
letterboxers. When they begin to talk about their camping trips and
trail hikes, I know I have found someone who has a love of outdoors
and nauture and the hobby would help compliment their outdoor
experience. I reside in NE Ohio and to date there are not may
boxers in my area. I'm always happy if i get someone else
interested in the hobby. Then it makes planting my boxes worth
while. Am I selective about who I discuss the hobby with? Yes. Do I
keep it a total secret, NO. If it was kept a total secret then none
of us would have discovered the hobby that has enriched our lives so
much. The Cat's Meow

" What we should be doing is letting it grow naturally and treasuring
it."

I see people making statements similar to this and I wonder, to myself,
what they consider to be the definition of "naturally" in this day and
age.

YahYah

Unlike the Cast In History Smithsonian piece all the LB
sites/books/etc talk about, THIS NPR piece was MY inspiration into
boxing... Having said that, I'm a died in the wool NPR Head.

It ONLY took my 18 months to finally get around to trying
this ...addiction.. So I say, do not EVER discount the folks
who "get it" due to this piece, please!

I've been in touch with Scarab....18 months AFTER the fact to
attempt to express my gratitude for ....well talking up Our
Addiction and to even to say THANK YOU....my life will NEVER be the
same without boxing! I only wish I'd known about it during my 20
years of international travel...

I couldn't get onto the site for weeks afterwards, either.

My employers have been generous this holiday week to give me 11 days
off. The Weather Goddess has also been kind enough to bless those
of us who live in the CO Rocky Mountain region with the warmest Xmas
on record.

In the UK/Commonwealth, 12/26 is called Boxing Day..so ergo, I did,
this year.

ANY habit/hobbit/addiction needs NEW Blood. Without folks like me,
(or at least what/whom I rePREsent...the "thing" dies. Hell, I've
even, at the prompting of an active boxer on my local Talk List been
invited to Speak Up. I love and adore every poster...and I've never
met a single ONE of them, yet! Community? Hell YES!

I started boxing on Labor Day of 2005, and yesterday passed F60.
I've been at this "thing" just long enough to see and know that lazy
people who can't be bothered to carve a stamp, and most especially
HIDE THE DANGED box from view...TYVM, just makes ya wanna go under
ground.

To those who haven't.

I thank you.

I'm a boxer for life SOULY and completely because of the NPR piece.

Take What You Need
If you can't...
Leave The Rest!

Oh and..

Did being on the internet, posting this topic and trashing what we
all...to one degree or another ADORE

pump your ego Missmoon?

Cheers,
preboxed/aka HER Denver, CO

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "HER" wrote:
>
> Oh and..
>
> Did being on the internet, posting this topic and trashing what we
> all...to one degree or another ADORE
>
> pump your ego Missmoon?


et tu Preboxed?

?
>